User_talk: Cal/archive/7

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At 23:53, Dec 13, 2007

CalCal said:

Archiving talk page...

Blue_smile.gif

At 23:55, Dec 14, 2007

JoManJoMan said:

Cool! I'm the first other person to comment here. Hi Cal!

172665796_c35bd3fbbe.jpg
Thanks for helping wikiHow grow into something beautiful.



Thanks for answering people's questions and keeping things in order here on wikiHow!


At 01:00, Dec 15, 2007

ShabeyannTatiana said:

what's going on no ones talking to me!

At 15:49, Dec 15, 2007

D-raeD rae said:

Ah, nice catch ;) I dunno, either. It's gone now, though!
Thanks!

At 17:06, Dec 15, 2007

JoManJoMan said:

your welcome!

At 17:07, Dec 15, 2007

D-raeD rae said:

Sweet Smiles 9233.jpg

Thank you!






At 05:47, Dec 16, 2007

Be-HappyBe Happy said:

Hey Cal, I just joined Computer Wiki as Be Happy. Looks like a good site that I am ready to contribute to. It should grow into a very successful wiki in time.

By the way, have you found your second admin? I'm interested in the job. I'll need to split time between there and here, but I am definately up for the challenge!!

Get back to me when you can. Thanks a lot.

Brandon

At 06:04, Dec 16, 2007

Be-HappyBe Happy said:

Cool, but I found some sort of glitch in the forums. It won't let me post because it says I need to log in, and when I do, it tells me my account doesn't exist or is inactive.

At 19:48, Dec 16, 2007

SudoKingSudoKing said:

Yay! The guy finally signed off, and I got the nick 'Cal' for you on IRc. =D

At 21:47, Dec 16, 2007

JackHerrickJack H said:

Thanks for the Barnstar!  :)

At 05:10, Dec 17, 2007

Be-HappyBe Happy said:

If none of the admins edits except SudoKing, then why would you not want another that actually edits as well? It makes no sense to me. You give out five admin jobs, four of the five don't live up to the expectations. Then you turn away another user (me) who spent a good amount of my wikiHow time ( which is not much because of school and friends and stuff) editing your site when I could've done something more worthwhile.

I wanted to be an admin here, but I'd have too much competition so never asked to be considered. I figured it would be more productive to be admin on a new and developing site than here because wikiHow doesn't need anymore admins as far as I know. But Computer Wiki needs some leadership to get it through its early times, which are usually the toughest for a new wiki.

I'm not demanding you promote me to admin, it just doesn't make sense to me though why you give the jobs to people who don't edit and deny it to users who do.

At 05:29, Dec 17, 2007

66.110.225.21166.110.225.211 said:

test

At 15:50, Dec 17, 2007

The-ArchiverThe Archiver said:

I just archive.

At 00:46, Dec 18, 2007

PwhdaveyPaul D said:

In light of the project, do you have any input to add (i.e. aims, structure, research and methods)?

As well as articles, the project will be focusing on creating a whole new range and category of userboxes entailing the countries of origin/residence. i.e. This user lives in Russia. This is another step, and improvement, towards making wikiHow a more welcoming place to people outside of the USA, etc.

Maybe you could get started on them. I will be taking part in that as well.

At 02:48, Dec 18, 2007

PwhdaveyPaul D said:

Good job on the UIBs. I'm not sure about the icons though. Right now the project should focus on it's page. I've done the rough draft, but it still needs a big clean up. It is looking very sorry at the moment. Feel free to add.

At 02:48, Dec 18, 2007

PwhdaveyPaul D said:

Good job on the UIBs. I'm not sure about the icons though. Right now the project should focus on it's page. I've done the rough draft, but it still needs a big clean up. It is looking very sorry at the moment. Feel free to add.

At 06:45, Dec 18, 2007

ElocinaNicole Willson said:

Hi! FYI -- I removed your link to the LGBT wiki because it didn't appear to be a source or citation for Know if You are Gay. If I'm mistaken, please let me know.

At 06:50, Dec 18, 2007

SlinksterSlinkster said:

Hi Cal!

I came across one of your articles the other day-Deal With Being Tall As a Kid-and I just wanted to say-wow! It's a great article, and though I'm not using it (I'm not tall kid), I think it's a great article. Nice work!

Slinkster

At 06:53, Dec 18, 2007

SlinksterSlinkster said:

P.S You know what's funny? I just realised that i edited that article! I thought some of it sounded familiar...

At 17:57, Dec 18, 2007

ElocinaNicole Willson said:

I suggest you take a look at the sources and citations policy if you haven't already. Basically, external links aren't allowed unless they were used in researching the text of an article. Basically, this rule was put into place because most of the external links that get added to articles are linkspam.

At 20:17, Dec 18, 2007

ShaiaquaShaiaqua said:

Thanks Cal :).

At 23:55, Dec 18, 2007

JackHerrickJack H said:

High Quality wikiHow Contributor
Barnstar.png
For your enthusiasm in building our how to manual. -- Jack H

At 00:08, Dec 19, 2007

JackHerrickJack H said:

Thank you!

At 02:15, Dec 19, 2007

NwnationalsNwnationals said:

so you <# soccer!!! i do. its the best game1111 !!! u know what nwnationals is rihgt. how do u find people online.

At 02:42, Dec 19, 2007

The-ArchiverThe Archiver said:

Other wikis???? Don't tell me there are OTHER wikis......

No, just wikiHow. That is the only wiki for me. Hey, if you hear of anyone who needs a little archiving done (at wikiHow!) please do send them my way, will you? Thanks.

At 04:50, Dec 19, 2007

HippoHippo said:

Hallo! Thanx for yr message of welcome.

At 04:54, Dec 19, 2007

HippoHippo said:

How do you make blue smileys?

At 05:00, Dec 19, 2007

HippoHippo said:

Thank you!

Blue_smile.gif

At 15:56, Dec 19, 2007

FlicketyFlickety said:

At 18:13, Dec 19, 2007

JackHerrickJack H said:

Hey Cal,

How goes? DO you think you could help me pretty up this template? I just made.

http://www.wikihow.com/Template:Author2

I was thinking it might look a little more polished if it had a nice border around it. Sort of like {{WikiBeauty}}but I'm not good at this sort of stuff. If you are interested, take a few stabs and let me know what you think.

Thanks for all!

At 18:23, Dec 19, 2007

JackHerrickJack H said:

Cool! Go ahead and save a couple versions you like in page history with descriptive edit summaries. Than we can both chose a winner.

Thanks for helping!

At 06:42, Dec 20, 2007

Green11Green11 said:

hi im new so lets talk and get to no each other

At 07:32, Dec 20, 2007

SoorajSooraj said:

Hello Cal, Thanks for your message and for your encouragement. I love wikihow just because this includes everything and solves my doubts. I will try my best to write useful informations for all wikihow FANS...! Thanks for all!!

At 09:39, Dec 20, 2007

MdotleyWebster said:

I redirected wikiSysops' talk page to the admin notice board so people don't think it's an active account.

Good idea! I protected it that way, too.

At 13:16, Dec 20, 2007

Sexy_Trina_1980Sexy_Trina_1980 said:

Cal,

I haven't read the comments yet, however, if that is what they are accusing me of then they were quite accurate.

Since returning from Germany in 2005, I haven't taken a single day off from work.
I've accumulated well over 60-days of paid vacation time, and I intend to use that vacation time however I please.
I don't need to go back again until mid-February (although the plan is to go back on January 14th).

Until then I can drink whatever I want, whenever I want, and there isn't a single person on this planet that can stop me.

So if that is what they think of me at the time I wrote those posts, they were absolutly right.
Quite severely, as a matter of fact, judging from the hang-over.


I ain't had a day off now, in over two years.
My Jamaican vacation's gonna start right here.
If the phone's for me you can tell them~ I just sailed away.~

Pour me something tall and strong.
Make it a hurricane,
before I go insane.

It's only half past twelve.
But I don't care,
it's five o'clock somewhere.



Now to move on to a more important, but unrelated, issue which came up two nights ago.

In summer of 2007, I did not beleive in the "Wiki model" as an effective way to build an online resource. Despite the widely heralded "success" of Wikipedia among the general public, there remains much criticism among professionals of the Wiki-model/Concensus-model with regard to accuracy.

The fact that I am here of course, indicates that to some extent I have changed my mind.

The majority of critics I talk to feel Wikipedia is riddled with inaccuracies and is untrustworthy. They sight the lack of assurance that "Subject Matter Experts" are sufficiently involved in reviewing material to protect it from "well ment but inaccurate" edits (i.e. contributions from people who, although acting in good faith, don't know what they are talking about).

Wikipedia's "sucess" has only made worst this problem of "truth by way of concensus", because more and more people are now turning to Wikipedia for its convenience, ease of use, and understandability to the average viewer. Yet, most users (who do not participate as editors themselves) are unfamiliar with how the material they are reading came into being. And thus don't think to check for less obvious inaccuracies.

The average viewer fails to examine the edit history, who made what contribution, the trustability of the contributers knowledge, or to consider that just because everyone agrees to something doesn't make it true. And many users turn away from other, more reliable, sources because those sources are less convenient, at times harder to understand, and in some cases only go as far as not confirming Wikipedia's inaccuracies (without mentioning or directly contradicting them).

Which creates the additional issue of "bias by way of acceptance", people using Wikipedia to make thier own personal beleifs appear to be authoritive fact. Simply by placing what looks to be accurate material, then rolling back any edit which attempts to remove it, until personal opinion has been stated as fact for so long attepts to correct it will look like vandalism to a patroller who lacks expertise in the subject.

Since becoming a registered user of WikiHow, I have changed some of my views on the validity of the Wiki-Model. It was already clear Wikipedia has been sucessful in terms of useability and popularity. The question was its sucess as a reliable and accurate source. While there are examples of Wikipedia's failure to be accurate, and to correct unconfirmed statments which first appeare "out of the blue" on Wikipedia, without reference, and without any mention in any prior authoritive material anywhere.
I now beleive the solution to be found in developing a more reliable model for accuracy patrol.

The problem is the people most qualified to do this, those capable of ensuring scholarly accuracy, are generally the very people who don't beleive in the Wiki-Model to begin with. And hence, don't care to participate in what some of them call "The greatest online joke, that anyone can make-up".

While the bulk of those willing to devote there time to "The greatest online encyclopedia, that anyone can edit", are the very people not always able to distingush a well researched fact from a well worded personal opinion.

Believing instead, Wikipedia to be a generally good idea simply in need of two things: 1.) Improved model for the accuracy patrol, and 2.) Increased influence from scholarly sources; I decided to, starting with people I knew directly, gather a group of Wiki-Model critics and persuade them to start an effort to fix these problems rather than criticize them.

About a month ago I picked a person I knew. Someone who was well-known for his knowledge, but (intentionally) was not very influential among his peers. This way if he agreed, I could use his opinion for support; but if he did not, I would not have to worry about it working against me on its own.

To stimulate his involvement, I started a intentionally biased argument to the effect Wikipedia was dillegent enough to catch any bad edits which came its way (thesis). Then guided him to the desired response, trying to prove me wrong by vandalizing an article to see how long they would take to correct it (anti-thesis).

The two desired possibilities were a.)Wikipedia corrects the vandalization quickly, proving the Wiki-Model is self defending and just needs people like him to help with accuracy, b.) Wikipedia fails to correct the vandalism quickly, proving they need more people like him to improve their accuracy. Either way, he gets involved (synthesis).

When he didn't do anything, I assumed he didn't feel the matter was importaint and had forgotten about it.

Which brings us to the events leading to Tuesday night.

Sometime Tuesday evening, while I was out with friends touring Austin and San Antonio, he decided (for whatever strange reason goes on in his mind) not to test the Wiki-Model by vandalizing a Wikipedia article, but instead, to test the Wiki-Model by making changes to a WikiHow article, "How to Connect Two Computers", which I had been pointing out as an example of some of my work here.

According to the e-mail I saw when I got home last night, he made 3 changes, one a good-faith improvement, one an "honest inaccuracy", and one which he refered to as an "obscure natured edit" (I have no idea what he means by "obscure natured", he has not yet responded to my reply e-mail); but beleives all the edits would appear to be an "honest effort", and that none would be taken as vandalism. Although he did not state his reasoning directly, it is my impression he wanted to see if an intellegent editor would think to leave the improvement in place, while correcting the inaccuracy.

He claims to have done these from a public computer, who's IP he beleived to have been used by others to vandalize WikiHow in the past. And also claims to have monitored the article, and found all three edits including the good faith improvement to have been reverted "indescriminatly and without attention to accuracy".

I have looked at the changes, seen what was done, and am completely unsure what to make of the whole thing. Or how to respond.

I was wondering if you had any suggestion.

~ Trina

At 21:30, Dec 20, 2007

MdotleyWebster said:

You left the note on Jack's Talk page, and I just thought it was such a good idea that I should enhance it, and make sure you got some positive feedback on it.

At 23:40, Dec 20, 2007

LuckyBearLuckyBear said:

Thanks so much Cal.. I will try to create a new template as soon as I can.

Sincerely, LuckyBear

At 00:01, Dec 21, 2007

24.149.208.4124.149.208.41 said:

Because you have opened this... you will get kissed on the nearest possible Friday by the love of your life... if you don't break the chain. Tomorrow will be the best day of your lif e. However, if you don't send this to at least 10 people by the stroke of midnight tonight you will be forever cursed in love. Just copy and paste n send it to15 pple xcept me............... when you are done press F6 and your crushes name will appear on the screen in big letters. this is scary cuz it works!!!! if you break the chain you will have problems with relationships for the next 11 year

At 00:40, Dec 21, 2007

LuckyBearLuckyBear said:

Hey Cal! I am pleased to tell you that I have finished my welcome template. I cannot wait to show you!

  • Thanks for links, tips, etc!

Sincerely, LuckyBear

At 00:46, Dec 21, 2007

LuckyBearLuckyBear said:

This is what it looks like:

Welcome Cal/archive/7!

Welcome to wikihow! The How to manual that you can edit. I have seen that you have joined here, and wikihow is so glad about that. We want you to feel welcomed, so here are some guides that will make your wiki-life so much easier. Thank you for joining wikihow, hope you will love it here!

Learn About wikiHow
Have a Question?
Things You Can Do
Explore & Experiment

Something is messed up.. I did create a template, but the code is off

At 00:49, Dec 21, 2007

LuckyBearLuckyBear said:

Yes.. indeed it is. This is the link for my template http://www.wikihow.com/User:LuckBear/w When I type the code.. it keeps on doing that.

At 00:52, Dec 21, 2007

LuckyBearLuckyBear said:

But, how do I welcome users with that template? I tried the copde you gave me.. and that blank page is the only thing the users see.. has this happened before?

At 00:52, Dec 21, 2007

LuckyBearLuckyBear said:

But, how do I welcome users with that template? I tried the copde you gave me.. and that blank page is the only thing the users see.. has this happened before?

At 00:54, Dec 21, 2007

LuckyBearLuckyBear said:

Oh... must have been a silly typo! I am going to welcomne some new users.. thank for fixing it!

At 00:58, Dec 21, 2007

LuckyBearLuckyBear said:

Thanks.. now I want to create another template. Oh, I have a new idea.. I can create a template saying "Can you please help me with __?" Now.. where would I go to create that template?

At 01:03, Dec 21, 2007

LuckyBearLuckyBear said:

This is what I want it to look like:

Hello Cal/archive/7! I have seen so many good articles that you have written. I am fairly new and I was wanting some tips on how to start a new article. If you could please help me, step by step, to become an advanced wikihowian.

On 01:03, 21 December 2007

LuckyBearLuckyBear said:

Maybe longer.. maybe different colors.. maybe links.. maybe some better pictures or something?

On 01:03, 21 December 2007

CalCal said:

test

On 01:07, 21 December 2007

LuckyBearLuckyBear said:

Never mind.. that template would be very short for a template. I think I will stick with what I have right now.. if I need to make a template later, I know right where to go. Thanks Cal!

On 01:36, 21 December 2007

JadaJada said:

Hi! I havnt talked to you in a while message me back!

On 01:44, 21 December 2007

JadaJada said:

what?

On 02:41, 21 December 2007

JadaJada said:

Uhh,Im not dumb. I know to write articles. (obvious) I like like to meet people, EVERYONE knows that. Geez!

On 04:44, 21 December 2007

JadaJada said:

I DONT HAVE TIME TO WRITE SO MUCH BECAUSE I JUST MOVED AND MY PARENTS JUST BROKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On 06:09, 21 December 2007

Sexy_Trina_1980Sexy_Trina_1980 said:

Cal,

I appreciate your ability to see what i am talking nabout, however, I thinking perhaps because I took too long explaining the history...you did not read through to the signifigant part. And how it has lead to Tuesday Night.



Believing instead, Wikipedia to be a generally good idea simply in need of two things: 1.) Improved model for the accuracy patrol, and 2.) Increased influence from scholarly sources; I decided to gather, starting with people I knew directly, a group of Wiki-Model critics and persuade them to start an effort to fix these problems rather than criticize them.

About a month ago I picked a person I knew. Someone who was well-known for his knowledge, but (intentionally) was not very influential among his peers. This way if he agreed, I could use his opinion for support; but if he did not, I would not have to worry about it working against me on its own.

To stimulate his involvement, I started a intentionally biased argument to the effect Wikipedia was dillegent enough to catch any bad edits which came its way (thesis). Then guided him to the desired response, trying to prove me wrong by vandalizing an article to see how long they would take to correct it (anti-thesis).

The two desired possibilities were a.)Wikipedia corrects the vandalization quickly, proving the Wiki-Model is self defending and just needs people like him to help with accuracy, b.) Wikipedia fails to correct the vandalism quickly, proving they need more people like him to improve their accuracy. Either way, he gets involved (synthesis).

When he didn't do anything, I assumed he didn't feel the matter was importaint and had forgotten about it.

Which brings us to the events leading to Tuesday night.

Sometime Tuesday evening, while I was out with friends touring Austin and San Antonio, he decided (for whatever strange reason goes on in his mind) not to test the Wiki-Model by vandalizing a Wikipedia article, but instead, to test the Wiki-Model by making changes to a WikiHow article, "How to Connect Two Computers", which I had been pointing out as an example of some of my work here.

According to the e-mail I saw when I got home last night, he made 3 changes, one a good-faith improvement, one an "honest inaccuracy", and one which he refered to as an "obscure natured edit" (I have no idea what he means by "obscure natured", he has not yet responded to my reply e-mail); but beleives all the edits would appear to be an "honest effort", and that none would be taken as vandalism. Although he did not state his reasoning directly, it is my impression he wanted to see if an intellegent editor would think to leave the improvement in place, while correcting the inaccuracy.

He claims to have done these from a public computer, who's IP he beleived to have been used by others to vandalize WikiHow in the past. And also claims to have monitored the article, and found all three edits including the good faith improvement to have been reverted "indescriminatly and without attention to accuracy".

I have looked at the changes, seen what was done, and am completely unsure what to make of the whole thing. Or how to respond.

I was wondering if you had any suggestion.



The problem I am having now is that I am not sure exactly how to respond to him.

I don't know what he means by some parts of his rather cryptic e-mail, why he did not do as we had originally agreed, or what exactly his point is?

Ultimatly, I don't know how to respond to him.

My goal is to persuade him to the beleif that it would be a worthwhile effort to help me gather like minded people for the ultimate purpose of collaberatively working on fixing the problems we see with Wikipedia.

What I don't want him doing is....well...anything else he could do if I don't respond correctly. I am wondering what you think I should?


~ Trina

On 08:20, 21 December 2007

SoorajSooraj said:

Thank you

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