User_talk: Benn/6

Archive 6
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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not post new comments on this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

At 05:06, Dec 14, 2007

D-raeD rae said:

Morning doll face!
We're set then... Helena dress it is! :D
I doubt I can ship Luke to you... even if I could find a box big enough, I'm positive the post office would say something. And, no worries, I'll probably just get you socks. Or, if I'm feeling generous, some Paul Frank underwear XD Joking! Yes, Benn, I'm tres sure. *hugs*
Squared paper and a biro (biro...what is that?!) isn't much to go on, though... hmm... what size and colours do you prefer when you doll yourself up, darling?
I can't send it myself, as you're a lad and we're both unmarried, which would cause such a racket here. But, I know these kids, and they owe me.. so, if I do manage, you'll get "it" sometime in January :)
BTW, you should centre your Main Talkpage link.. it'd look spiffier.
Hugs x0x
-Jamie x0x0x

At 22:08, Dec 14, 2007

CalCal said:

Cool work on the C++ UIB!


At 05:34, Dec 15, 2007

D-raeD rae said:

Hey cutie!
Ah, I've got a biro.. you can have it if ya like XD
Em, your upper half, mate :P But never mind, I've got stuffs already... can ya give me the addy, pwease and thank you?
Ach, yes, I can't do it meself, as they'd think naughty things :P That's alright, though! I've found someone else to do it for me :D
It won't take as long to get to you as I thought, too... under three weeks, is what I've been told.
And nice work the other night!
Big hugglies x0x0x0x0x0x Jamie

At 07:13, Dec 15, 2007

Sexy_Trina_1980Sexy_Trina_1980 said:

With regards to connect two computers.

Your spelling is most probably correct in American English.

If you read my user page you will notice I'm not truely a "Native Speaker" of any langauge, because I spent the majority of my "Linguistic Developemental" years in various parts of Russia, and because even there my family normally used some combination of local Turkic and Slavic dialects around the house.

My father spoke fluent Russian, fluent English, and was fluent in several other Langauges such as French and Chinese. But the rest of my family (especially the women) spoke whatever was common to the Oblast they were in.

Also, sometimes I get confused because something vary from region to region. Photo, for example, is foto or photo depending on where you live. So it is possible both spellings are correct.

I really don't pay much attention to spelling, since the sound the letters make when you add them is the only thing important unless you are trying to make for a presentation anyways.

~ Trina

At 18:42, Dec 15, 2007

Chris-HChris Hadley said:

Hey Benn, Apparently "all right" is the and more correct form than alright, so I rolled your revert back :)

At 18:45, Dec 15, 2007

Chris-HChris Hadley said:

Of course, reading what I just wrote, one might wonder whether I have any business making grammatical judgments ;)

At 19:08, Dec 15, 2007

Chris-HChris Hadley said:

Yeah. New title seems fine to me. A lot of comments seem to indicate that people object to the "Homosexual" in the title.

At 19:12, Dec 15, 2007

Chris-HChris Hadley said:

It's moved :) Would you mind updating the inbound links?

At 19:21, Dec 15, 2007

Chris-HChris Hadley said:

You're welcome. Happy to help! :)

At 21:19, Dec 15, 2007

MrsBMrsB said:

Just a quick line to say how much I appreciate the integrity with which you write. Rarely does one find someone who has both something to convey and the skill to do it. Well done. I am probably old enough to be your mother, so if that is patronising, I can probably get away with it. There is a distinctly homophobic whiff around the forums sometimes. I should not be surprised, and yet I always am. Somehow I expect better of my fellow humans and am therefore doomed to disappointment. You, on the other hand, give me hope. Bless you.

At 21:38, Dec 15, 2007

MrsBMrsB said:

What you have to remember forums are places where "moral" crusaders congregate. The vast - and silent - majority do not contribute because they do not see the need. We sound and feel like lone voices because the less a view is publicly expressed, the fewer people will express it. It is a law of diminishing returns, but it doesn't mean that most people actually agree with the opposite viewpoint. They do not. Tis is the invidious nature of the media. The more we hear our views NOT expressed, the less likely we are to express them. And that is why it is vital that WE do! Sociology 101. I hate hypocrisy worse than poison. Don't you?

At 21:38, Dec 15, 2007

MrsBMrsB said:

What you have to remember forums are places where "moral" crusaders congregate. The vast - and silent - majority do not contribute because they do not see the need. We sound and feel like lone voices because the less a view is publicly expressed, the fewer people will express it. It is a law of diminishing returns, but it doesn't mean that most people actually agree with the opposite viewpoint. They do not. Tis is the invidious nature of the media. The more we hear our views NOT expressed, the less likely we are to express them. And that is why it is vital that WE do! Sociology 101. I hate hypocrisy worse than poison. Don't you? Merry Christmas darling and God bless you.

At 22:21, Dec 15, 2007

MrsBMrsB said:


At 22:35, Dec 15, 2007

JkdeaditeJohn Kruse said:


I'm just trying to say what's on my mind. I really think that a lot of people object to the homosexuality of the image, and are trying to find reasons to get rid of it other than that.

I really think that the "if it was a woman" argument is moot. If it was a woman, and she had no shirt, it would be a totally different case.

Keep fighting the good fight!

At 07:33, Dec 16, 2007

D-raeD rae said:

Good morning!
Cheers for the mail! You're way nicer than the other lad on my bebo. Heh heh.. you made me chuckle with the sizing comment XD You're too cute!
Don't even worry about it, though; I'm a teen, I'm supposed to rebel! And it's not like I'll tell my parents, either. Just you wait, once I move to the West& get a paypal/credit card/life, you'll be getting all kinds of stuff :P
And here's an out of the way question: when you get messages, do you immediately see the off-white box in the corner, or do you have to jump around a bit? Glitch research XD
I send you ginormous huggles and a few regular sized ones x0x0x

At 07:45, Dec 16, 2007

D-raeD rae said:

Have you seen this? It's in the wikiPaper...
Hugs Benn, you're the best. Heck, you're an inspiring young man <3 <3
-Jamie x0x

At 14:26, Dec 16, 2007

MochaRichard said:

Hi Benn, I know we haven't talked outside of the forums, and I just wanted to drop you a line.I want you to know how much I appreciate the work you do on wikIhow. I used to be much more active, but RL keeps me pretty busy but I have noticed some of your edits on RC.

In todays world, there is so much political correctness, sometimes things can be misconstrued. So I wanted to let you know that I think you are great and that I am not, to be frank, a homophic person as some people on the forums would say. I hope my position on the issue of the famous picture doesn't take away from our ability to be friends and work on wikiHow.

Merry Christmas,



At 17:35, Dec 16, 2007

D-raeD rae said:

Evening stud!
Haha, DJ the ebay ***re XD
wikiHow, darling ;) Do you catch the off-white box up in the corner? And you're not always confused, you're way too on top o'things!
Mahoosive XD I love it! 'Tis me new favourite word <3
You read the message on Slinkster's page, didn't you!? ;D Lol, did you actually type the fishies, or copy/paste? I wish I could do text thingers like that! Enorantical hugsss and cuddles xxx
"""""""" quotation marks """""""
-Jamie x0x0x
PS: heh heh, there'll be no return address. So I won't die.

At 18:00, Dec 16, 2007 said:

what are you talking about?

At 18:23, Dec 16, 2007

D-raeD rae said:

Lol, let's have at it again XD Whenever you get a new message, does an off-white box in the upper right-hand corner pop up with Benn, you have new messages on it? If not, how do you know when you've got new messages?
Ah, you're making lol XD Hugh...
Huggs and cuddllesss, cookie
-Jamie xc0xc0xc0xc0

At 19:10, Dec 16, 2007

MochaRichard said:

Hi Benn,

I know what you mean about keeping it in principal. I know how things like this can sometimes seem like a real battle, and I don't want you to think that anybody (well I can't speak for everyone, but me anyways) is trying to ban or censor pictures of two LGBT people. Its just my issue is I feel that it is sexualy charged. I understand about keeping it on principal. For exemple, at my school a student got in trouble for bringing a bible, I got mad about that so I brought mine. LOL, I guess I'm guilty of "contraversy for the sake of contraversy" aren't I?

Maybe you and I would like to work togeather to write some amendments for the Image Deletion Policy to present to the community? I know some people say we should leave as is, but thats the beauty of a "do-ocracy... we can take initiative. That way, we may be able to set your precedent as you mentioned before.

I noticed things got a bit heated on the forums again so I might go try and smooth things over a little.

Good talking to you!


At 19:57, Dec 16, 2007

MdotleyWebster said:

Please do not add tags to current Featured Articles, like Move Cross Country. Thank you.

At 05:41, Dec 17, 2007

D-raeD rae said:

Mrs. B accidentally posted this to herself the other morning... I think it was meant for you: In some circles of course PhD stands for "push here, dummy"
Now, was it me, or did you sound peeved over there on Madam's talkpage? What's the matter?
Thanks for letting me know about the wikiHow box thinger last night... I cannot believe you use the toolbar XD
Canadian, Scottish and English hugs going your way xxxxxxx

At 05:59, Dec 17, 2007

D-raeD rae said:

Template Upholder
Nes temp barnstar_396.png
You've really made a difference with your work on wikiHow's templates. You've made major improvements to existing ones, fixed some glitches, and you've even created a few of your own. Way to go, Benn!

At 09:38, Dec 17, 2007

MdotleyWebster said:

Please do not repeatedly make forum posts that consist of quoting an entire previous post with a one line (or less) version of "I agree" at the bottom. It's really getting irritating, and tempers are high enough as it is. Every once in a while is fine, but when every third post (I'm sure that's a slight exaggeration) is like that, it takes so much longer to read through the discussion, and little or nothing is added.

I had intended to wait until the current ... um, heated debate ... is resolved, but it's driving me crazy.

At 16:17, Dec 17, 2007

D-raeD rae said:

...I'm going to ignore that one....
Jaysis, that made me (m/s)ad... and that link was on an article? Or, if not, how did you come across that.... crud?
Pfft, that table... reverse logic, much? PhD? Pechya right. Rawr.
Thanks for the link, darling. Huggles xxxx0xxxx0xxxx

At 18:07, Dec 17, 2007

FernandacatsFernandacats said:

Leave my Waldo alone.

At 01:18, Dec 18, 2007

IPersonIPerson said:

Well, honestly that is just my opinion and I have a right to express it, no matter what it's like. And you have a right to express yours, even if I don't agree with it. But no, I can't censor my thoughts if they're offensive to someone. So, sorry dude.

At 01:32, Dec 18, 2007

SlinksterSlinkster said:

Thanks for your christmas present, but i'm a vegetarian....;)



At 22:47, Dec 18, 2007

MochaRichard said:

Hi Benn, Sorry I take so long to return your message.

This is an exciting prospect, and I look forward to working on it with you. Maybe we can copy and past the current Image deletion policy to a seperate page and we can work on it from there. I like your idea of having exemples too! Richard

At 07:21, Dec 19, 2007

D-raeD rae said:

At 21:11, Dec 20, 2007

MdotleyWebster said:

You're doing an excellent job watching over the Featured Articles today. Thanks!

At 00:16, Dec 21, 2007

MdotleyWebster said:

Heh ... Look at whose version each of you reverted to:

  • (diff) (hist) . . m! Roll a Coin on Your Knuckles‎; 00:13 . . (-72) . . Krystle (Talk | contribs | bunch | block) (Reverted edits by (Talk); changed back to last version by Bennelliott)
  • (diff) (hist) . . m! Roll a Coin on Your Knuckles‎; 00:07 . . (-185) . . Bennelliott (Talk | contribs | bunch | block) (Reverted edits by (Talk); changed back to last version by Krystle)

At 07:26, Dec 21, 2007

D-raeD rae said:

Oh my Lord.. you've read the conversation, haven't you? *blushes*
Ach, well. I'm glad you're alright :) I was worried when I hadn't seen you around; I was going to come over there!
.*hugggs* Very nice response you gave, too.
But, you're alright? Like, nothing's wrong?
-Jamie x0x
PS;; heh heh, the comment up top makes me smile.

At 16:28, Dec 21, 2007

JackHerrickJack H said:


Many, many thanks for patrolling RC. You are doing a great job. I did notice that you accidentally patrolled this spam as OK though. Oops!

Easy to miss when you are going fast though. :) Thanks so much for patrolling though.  :) Keep it up.

At 16:33, Dec 21, 2007

JackHerrickJack H said:

No worries Benn.  :) Thanks so much for your excellent work on RC patrol. It has really kept us afloat frequently.  :) Thanks!

At 18:38, Dec 21, 2007

Sexy_Trina_1980Sexy_Trina_1980 said:


This is in response to your post to the image talk page. It was posted first to the image talk page, because it is response to comments you made there. I decided to post here also much of it, because it is ment for you. However, I did remove some parts who's main value id to the image discussion.

If you want to see what I left out, you should look at it there.

Firstly, let me appologize for taking so long to respond.

I was away in Austin and San Antonio, and when I returned, I discovered I had a much bigger problem than two hugging men to worry about. If you've been to D Rae's, Cal's, or Pwhdavey's talk pages you should know what I am talking about. I don't want you to think I was ignoring you, it's just the two hugging men are not the only things going on in the world; and I am sincerly sorry if that left you feeling ignored.

Now, let's look at what you wrote while I was away.

The reason why I re-uploaded it because I, along with many others, felt that taking action regardless of what it was based on vote counting was not a consensus. "Re-uploading is a very unconsensus like way to go about resisting a deletion process."? and simply taking action without the consensus isn't?

That was a very valid and logical statement. However, not everyone seemed to feel that way.

Julia Maureen certainly didn't feel this way when she stated:

A CONSENSUS WAS REACHED. This is the most irritating thing I have seen in a LONG time, from ANY wikiHow member or group of members. The MAJORITY OF PEOPLE SAID IT SHOULD BE DELETED. AND SO IT WAS. You do NOT upload it again after that has been reached, END OF DISCUSSION. If you couldn't rally up enough support to keep it, I am SO sorry for you, but the fact of the matter is, it was agreed upon being DELETED, NOT KEPT. It is LONG past it's due date for being deleted because of the discussions that are going around in rediculous circles, because people supporting deletion say even if it were a man and a woman, it would still be nudity, and the people supporting it being kept say that they're homophobes, which is not only insulting, but IRRELEVENT. If there are more homophobes then there are not, that's still a majority ruling. So I am EXTREMELY irritated that it's been uploaded again, and I am, quite frankly, on the edge of simply deleting the picture and sending the particular USER WHO BROUGHT IT BACK regardless of the consensus a reality check.
I did a quick review of the forum threads prior to making my posts on December 17th and 18th. I admit my review may not have been thorough, but, for the purpose of finding why you re-uploaded the picture it shouldn't have needed to be. Even if there had been sufficient discussion in the forums to make it clear you re-uploaded the picture because some members felt consensus hadn't been reached. This was not at all seen in the image's talk page.

If you take the time to look at my posts, not just here but through-out wiki-how, you'll notice I make it a a point to design them with "attention to context and perspective". By this I mean, it's not just important what you post, but the context and perspective it is seen in.

Not everyone who reads the discussion thread will have been to the forums. And not everyone who visited the forums is going to run, what I beleive now to be 10+ pages, through a "fine toothed comb" to see your reason for re-uploading the picture.

I honestly tried to find something to justify your re-uploading this photo, because I don't agree with others wanting to delete pictures like these to begin with. But when I couldn't find one, and then saw Julia Maureen's post, it became clear your actions looked like you were just re-uploading the picture as I described.

Thus the appearance sent the message "I don't care what the community thinks I am just going to re-upload it anyways."

One way you could have remedied this, and in doing so solicited my support for keeping the photo as opposed to support for deletion, would have been to post a message to the talk thread explaining the reason for it's re-upload. Simliar to the one Richard left when he deleted the first upload:

Mocha said:

This has been IFDed for two weeks... It has caused much disucssion which is healthy for wikIHow.

A week behind schedual, I have taken the initiative to tally the votes: Yes- 14 No- 5

This, constitutes grounds for deletion.

IFD upheld. Deleting image. See forums to continue discussion on the image deletion policy. Thank you EVERYONE for your input.
Although I am not aware of any policy requiaring you to post such a message, common sense and good practice are to post the reason for your re-upload to the discussion page; to make it apparent for all the world to see why a major change to the file took place, and avoid sending the message of simply re-uploading it without regard to community decision.

I beleive you've already seen what I posted to D Rae's talk page concerning the establishment of a precedence for behavior.
To what was said there, I'd like to add, appearance is critical to establishing precedance.

I would not "have efficiently used the picture of the two women kissing that no one has an argument against" because I uploaded that other picture after this one and after I tried to use it. I did take down this image after, and searched for another picture - the one with the two lesbians in it.

Hmmm... Perhaps I should have chosen better words. The point was, it's not clear to many people why you're allowing so much fuss to be made over this particular picture.

I do agree that, at some point, creating a discussion such as this over these kinds of pictures is valid. But, you could've tried to find other pictures first.

And if it is, in fact, the case you are fighting for this picture because you've already made repeated efforts to find alternates. And, it became clear something must be said; once again, there is no clear and apparent indication of this on the image discussion page. What ever may be in the forums is severely buried by the rest of the discussion.

Also, I do not "think the whole world is attacking me for being a fag. - I never did say that. Nor do I "choose based on what is homo-erotic to you".

Be that as it may Benn, one thing which was repeated by other users in the forum threads (often enough to be apparent to the average user without having to search) were comments to the effect this thread, at some point, had turned into a "Gay Pride Parade". Although those comment did not appear in this discussion thread, the fact they were made by someone indicates this thread looked that way to someone.

Firstly, there are elements of this image which seemed to have been completely over-looked.
Yet need to be considered in order to fully understand why WikiHow should keep images such as these:

Whether or not the picture would be assumed to be art,
Whether or not someones particular region, religion, or family finds the picture [any more or less] acceptable,
Whether a picture is any less more [acceptable] if the article it [or similar pictures] is[/are] used in is a featured article.
I could add to that list. But part of the reason for my wording was this image's discussion should not just be about it's signifigance as a picture depicting sexuality or homosexuality. The homosexual aspect is no doubt signifigant, but there are other things which need to be considered concerning these types of photos.

18:38, 21 December 2007 (GMT)18:38, 21 December 2007 (GMT)~~Large Section Removed18:38, 21 December 2007 (GMT)Viewable from Image Talk Page18:38, 21 December 2007 (GMT)18:38, 21 December 2007 (GMT)18:38, 21 December 2007 (GMT)~

The more important reason for my choice of words, and my design, which yes I do agree could very well be seen as a personal attack (or a personal excercise in provoking introspection) is that I've been watching you for some time.

I've noticed the things you do, and where the general focus of your efforts seem to be.

More importantly, I've noticed the nature of how you react to things. It occured to me the impression of a one man "Gay Pride Parade", which you obviously left someone who posted to the forums with, may result from aspects of your psychology which you might not be aware of. Yourself, D Rae, and I have already begun to discuss some of these over the last couple of days on our respective talk pages.

What It is important to me that you know,

I do not see these things as "faults" or "weaknesses" on your part.
I do not, per se, wish you to feel that I am trying to get you to "fix" anything.

For me to do so would be hypocritical, as I myself have a complex, anomolous, multi-facetted character of my own. And like you, I tend to "push boarders", although my motives, I beleive, to be very different from yours. Additionally, who you are is who you are. It does not need to conform to Trina's, or anyone else's, judgment of what a person should be or should try to be.

The flaw, is when one is not self-aware of it.

And if what D Rae said is correct, then I should at this point tell you,
I am sorry my method of achieving the psychological effect, involved hurting your feelings.

And thank you for the comments you left on my talk page, it releives me to know I was able to achieve the desired effect.
Since there is currently an on going issue in which I did not achieve my desired effect, and am uncertain what effect I will end up achieving.

Also, I suggested to crop the image on the forums and someone, and I think it was either Nicolle or Flickety or Maureen or someone agreed that maybe that would be a good idea - not to try and sway someone in a childish way of "getting brownie points".

For this one, I do need to apologize.

I made a mistake and I am sorry. Although it is possible you could have made reference to why you thought cropping would make any difference, I don't think it would be reasonable of me to say "you should have done...such and such". Anyone following the thread would have known, and as for anyone who wasn't there at the time...who cares if they got a wrong impression over such a minor thing.

The only reason I made mention of it was because it fit into your over-all behavior pattern. And as my above comments reveil, your over all behavior pattern was my reason for including that element.

I have not yet been to the forums since my post on December 18th (the reason for this will beocme clear later).
However, if what you said was your reason, I am sure I will be able to find it there.

unlike you suggested, I do understand that this is a wiki - and what that means.

I'm not sure why you think I was suggesting this, but since I obviously left you with that impression.

Ok, thank you for letting me know.

To clarify another point, Richard suggested to me, in what is may I say a very gentlemanly gesture, so that - unlike how you suggested - we can make suggestions of amendments.

Ok, this one you have truely lost me...
Unless the reference is to comments I made in the forums, which I haven't looked through yet...I'm not sure what your talking about.

You can elaborate on my talk page, or on this image discussion thread. More than likely I will only address it on the page you post your clarification to.

This message was posted both here and to the thread, only because I feel it is relevant to both.

Ok, that is all I have time for right now. I have road trip to make, and it's already quite close to 2:00pm.

You have fun and Merry Christmas.

~ Trina

At 21:53, Dec 21, 2007

Xteraine20Xteraine20 said:

happy holidays... to you.. and well hope you mean that....

At 00:57, Dec 22, 2007

MelephantMelephant said:

hey. will you chat?

At 03:39, Dec 22, 2007

HipgirlHipgirl said:

Hi Bennelliott,

Thank you for improving the article

I have a question. You added a note that the format need to be changed to wikihow format. I compared it with another article of mine and seems that the format is OK. Could you let me know where need to be improved?



At 04:40, Dec 22, 2007

D-raeD rae said:

Top of the morning, Mr. B.E. *insert last name here* :D Happy birthday!
You're so cheery, my dear XD You're going to have fun, and you're going to like it! And don't worry about Luke not being there; all the more fun you two can have when you're together :) Have a slice of cake on a napkin for me, right? Let me know how it goes :D
I'm alright, don't worry about me :P
Have a giant hug, love *HUGS* <3<3
-Jamie x0x0x


Happy birthday!

At 20:03, Dec 22, 2007

KageRulez98KageRulez98 said:

HI! I was reading your user page and I saw Celine Dion.<<<Spelled right?<<< I can play part of Titanic's My heart will go on. I can also sing it. It almost always makes me cry. well gotta go!

At 19:19, Dec 23, 2007

Loiswade42Lois Wade said:

With warm wishes for Peace and Goodwill to all...

Nativity scene 6974.jpg

Merry Christmas! Feliz Navidad! Frohe Weihnachten!

Buona Natale! Feliz Natal! Joyeux Noël! Mele Kalikimaka!

Gelukkige kerstdagen! Errymay Istmascray!

Nadolig Llawen! Glædelig Jul! Hyvää Joulua!

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